The legend of stage and screen speaks with Shondaland about her latest Broadway-starring role in “Ohio State Murders,” what she looks for in a project, and her favorite binge show.
Watching the performance of someone who can practically shatter glass with her voice and conjure any emotion with her acting talent is, in a way, akin to watching Michelangelo paint. You’re witnessing one of the greats, in her element, creating art that will be etched in the annals of culture. That’s how it feels seeing Audra McDonald, a true legend of stage and screen.
Take her performance as Suzanne Alexander in Ohio State Murders — a 75-minute sucker punch to the gut of a Broadway play. McDonald delivers the entirety of the piece — created by acclaimed playwright Adrienne Kennedy, who, at 91, finally makes her Broadway debut — as a monologue, and according to McDonald, the play, about how a writer grapples with how racism led to the murders of her young children when she was a college student, is “the hardest role” she’s ever done.
Regarding that, listing McDonald’s accolades could take all day: She won her first Tony for her performance as Carrie Pipperidge in a Lincoln Center revival of Carousel, which was called a breakthrough in “color-blind casting,” just a year out of Juilliard, where she studied voice. She’s gone on to win more Tony Awards as a performer than anyone else — six total and in all four performance categories — for stage performances in Master Class, Ragtime, A Raisin in the Sun, Porgy and Bess, and as Billie Holiday in Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill.
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Also under her weighty belt: She’s an acclaimed classical and opera singer with two Grammy Awards and three nominations; she earned an Emmy in 2016 for hosting Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (in a Live From Lincoln Center presentation), and has earned Emmy noms for performances in HBO’s Wit, an ABC made-for-TV adaptation of A Raisin in the Sun, and HBO’s film special of Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar & Grill. She’s also been nominated for two Critics’ Choice Awards for her role as Liz Reddick in The Good Fight (she’s currently up for a third nomination for that same role). She was named one of Time magazine’s 100 most influential people in 2015. Need more? The Fresno, California, native and current Westchester, New York, resident also received the National Medal of Arts — the U.S. government’s greatest honor for arts achievement — from President Barack Obama, and MIT bestowed her with the 2018 Eugene McDermott Award in the Arts, and she holds an honorary doctorate from Yale University.
Even with all these incredible achievements, McDonald also finds the time to give back. She’s a devoted advocate for equal rights, LGBTQIA+ causes (she was honored by the Human Rights Campaign in 2018), and at-risk youth. As part of a collective including Anna Deavere Smith, Kenny Leon, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Vanessa Williams, and other notable names in theater, she co-founded Black Theatre United, a social advocacy nonprofit organization that empowers the Black community through social action, influences widespread reform, and fights against systemic racism in the theater industry and nationwide.
Just as soon as Ohio State Murders closes, we’ll be able to see McDonald guest-starring as Dorothy Scott, writer Peggy Scott’s mother, in HBO’s The Gilded Age on HBO and HBO Max, whose second season premieres on January 24. Shondaland recently spoke with McDonald to discuss everything from what went into her heart-wrenching portrayal of Suzanne Alexander to what she looks for in a project, to which songs make her lose her mind.
VIVIAN MANNING-SCHAFFEL: I’m so honored to meet you! Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Ohio State Murders is closing shortly on January 15. Watching you play Suzanne Alexander was like a master class. You very gently and delicately peeled this onion of a character to reveal the cruel systemic racism that led to such a horrific tragedy. How do you go about preparing for a role like this?
AUDRA McDONALD: This is the hardest role I’ve ever done in particular, because I am a mother. I’m a human being, and I’m empathetic, so anybody hearing this story would be like, “Oh, my God.” I had to dissect it in a very surgical, almost non-emotional way so that the clarity came through. What’s most important, the reason she is doing this, is she’s delivering this indictment — she is finally going to tell the truth and set the record straight. I don’t think she realizes at the beginning, but it’s going to be a way for her to finally say her children’s names — get them out there and give them life, in a manner of speaking.
Because the story is so detailed, she’s very deliberate about how she delivers this information. She wants you to see all of the microaggressions, every little moment, every little decision, everything that led to this happening to her. So, I have to be really methodical about making sure that I understand the story as clearly as possible, and why I’m telling it in the order I’m telling it, so I can deliver it to the audience. The other thing about Suzanne is, because she’s sitting on all of this pain and trauma and she’s only ever used her work to get it out, the next part becomes about trying to keep a lid on that, if that makes sense.
VMS: Absolutely — your performance felt like a pot boiling over. My husband had to help me up afterward.
AM: The other thing I did was spend a lot of time talking to Adrienne Kennedy. It’s semi-autobiographical, so …
VMS: How did you get involved with this project?
AM: During the pandemic when everything was shut down, I was doing a Zoom reading of this play just because Jeffrey Richards, our producer, wanted to just do a couple of Zoom readings of certain plays to sort of celebrate and highlight certain playwrights to give people something theatrical to look at from their houses during lockdown. I just read it through a couple of times; I think we had a couple of hours of rehearsal on Zoom before we recorded it and put it out there. When I finished the actual presentation, turned off the Zoom, and shut the computer, like you, I couldn’t get up. I felt a hole in my heart. I kept thinking about the story and the poetry — the way the story is told was sort of seared in my cells. I couldn’t shake it. Then, I got a phone call the next day from my agent saying Jeffrey Richards wants to bring this to Broadway, and he wants you to do it, and Kenny [Leon] to direct it. It will be Adrienne’s Broadway debut. At that time, she was 89. I just said, “YEAH.”
For what it’s worth, there was another show I was offered seven years ago that dealt with a mother dealing with the death of her child, and I said no to it because I didn’t think I could handle living that every night onstage. I don’t know that I was necessarily ready this time, but the piece felt too important. I had to say yes, but that was a concern I had going in of how I’m going to manage my mental health in playing this role.
Audra McDonald (with Abigail Stephenson) in Ohio State Murders.
Richard Termine
VMS: That was the first question I thought to ask you when I saw the play. In my research, I noticed you had a similar conversation about Bess in Porgy and Bess when taking that on. How do you come down at the end of the night? I would imagine leaving so much of your soul onstage in that way is incredibly emotionally draining and challenging. How do you do it?
AM: I do make it a point to try and leave the character at the theater. I say goodbye to the character at night. I take her back to the dressing room, and I leave her there. The ritual when the wig person takes off my wig and the dresser takes the clothes off, which are usually soaked — just because for some reason the show gets me. My body is a little agitated. Every bit of that ritual helps me to peel her off for the night. Usually, I’m not out of there before a half hour has passed after the show. I’m usually the last one to leave the theater. I do walk out of there and intentionally say, “You stay here.” Conversely, when I get to the theater two hours before, I’m exhausted. My energy goes like that [gestures downward] because I’m starting to put it on.
The other thing about Suzanne is she’s 58 when she gives this talk, so she was 18 when all of this happened. She’s made the decision to finally do this. So, she has to walk out with — even if it’s only like this teeny-eensy, little bit — this confidence that she’s going to get through this. That’s the brilliance of Adrienne Kennedy — the reason you see her take out the speech and start practicing it — it’s not until the very, very end in our production of the play, the very last bit, that she reads. She’s finally in front of the audience, but everything up until the reveal of what happened, when I actually stand in front of that podium and actually start reading, that’s the only time in my mind we’re actually in front of the audience. Everything before that has been in her mind, and she’s been practicing it. And the only reason she’s been practicing it is to get through it.
VMS: According to an interview with Adrienne Kennedy in Time Out New York, she hopes that viewers will walk away from Ohio State Murders realizing “that people are dismissive of American Black women in a way.” Specifically, she says, “I want them to realize that they’re listening to a very articulate, thoughtful American Black woman, and perhaps they should pay attention to what she’s saying.” What do you hope the audience of the play has taken from it?
AM: Could I say it any better than what Adrienne said? I mean, that’s it. It’s so interesting because I don’t read reviews, but I hear snippets about what people will say, people who don’t necessarily like the play, and they’re like, “Why are you talking like that?” and it’s like, “Why can’t a Black woman talk like that? A Black woman wrote this play, and I’m speaking like she speaks. So, they exist.” Again, that in and of itself illuminates some of the microaggressions and racism that Black women still have to deal with today. I talk to Adrienne all the time, and I asked her that very question. She basically said in a more general way that she wants people to understand how destructive racism is. How destructive and how insidious. Because it’s a death by a thousand cuts as well, isn’t it? It’s not just a huge tragedy that happens, but if it hadn’t been that she was not allowed to take the English courses and that no one would take her seriously, or accused her of plagiarism so that all of the sudden she became not only enamored but able to be manipulated by this professor — all of it is because the scaffolding of racism that has been in place in this country since this country was founded and even before just continues to destroy.
VMS: You’re a six-time Tony winner, you’ve won an Emmy and a National Medal of Arts honor … the list goes on! The New York Times said you are “the most talented person on the planet.” What do you look for in a project?
AM: I’m not specific. What I’m looking for at all times is evolution as an artist. As a person, as a mom, as a human being, as a wife, as a soul — but as an artist too. I think what I’m constantly asking the universe for are projects that challenge me and make me grow, and make me feel like if I’m not a better actor tomorrow than I am today, then I’m going to be a more knowledgeable actor than I am today. I’m going to know more about the world. I’m going to know about my instrument, about the craft. I’m going to spend more time onstage trying to figure this out, or in front of a camera trying to figure this out, or in front of an audience with an orchestra. To boil that down, I look for the things that scare me.
VMS: That’s how you stay challenged. Knowing what you know now about your craft and about the business, what do you wish you could go back and tell yourself when you were young and in training at 18, 19, or 22?
AM: Trust your instrument. This sounds so cliché, but stop trying to sound like Barbra Streisand. Stop trying to sound like Judy Garland. Stop trying to sound like Lena Horne. Stop trying to sound like Diahann Carroll. Stop trying to act like Meryl Streep or Cicely Tyson. Audra is enough. Once you settle into what you have, that’s when you’ll start to grow. I think that’s the big lesson for a lot of young actors. You see people that inspire you, so you want to be like them, but I’m always telling young actors or singers who come up to me, “Be like you.” Work hard. I work very hard. I work my tail off. Work hard, but what people are going to respond to is what is deep down in your soul, not what’s deep down in my soul that you’re trying to emulate. Go down to what’s in your soul, and that’s what people are going to respond to.
Audra McDonald and Norm Lewis in Porgy and Bess at The 66th Annual Tony Awards on June 10, 2012.
CBS Photo Archive//Getty Images
VMS: How would you like to see show business progress? I know it’s such a vast and open question.
AM: You know, I’ve been doing this for 30-some-odd years now, and I do see that there has been progress. There’s much more representation than when I started. There’s much more awareness. There are starting to be some self-built systems within particular industries that are trying to hold accountability to make sure we’re continuing to diversify and make sure the theater makers, storytellers, and the stories that are being told are representative of us as a whole and not just one particular culture. We need to continue, especially within theater, to cultivate and grow our audiences. What’s the famous saying “You can’t stop them from not coming”? I want to make sure that we’re growing and cultivating not only our BIPOC audiences, but our white audiences as well. It’s not just getting them to Broadway; it’s getting them to witness these other stories as well. You see these other cultures onstage in the way that those white audiences that walked into Raisin in the Sun in the ’50s were like, “Oh! A Black family! They kind of argue like we do!” It’s not only making sure the work is there for people to see but that the audience comes as well.
VMS: I know you’ve done it all, but if you had the opportunity to take on any role at all that you have yet to tackle, which would it be? Is there a part you haven’t played that you’d love to play?
AM: I’d love to tackle more Shakespeare. I — along with every woman my age and maybe eight years younger and 10 years older than me who did musical theater at some point — would want to tackle Mama Rose, or something like that. And then the shows that hadn’t been written yet too. I love helping to create a show from the bottom up and creating new pieces. All of it! I’m open to all of it.
VMS: See what the universe says …
AM: What am I supposed to be learning now?
VMS: Exactly! Whom, what, or where do you look for inspiration when you feel you need some?
AM: It changes over time, but what I’ve been doing a lot over the past six months is listening to all of Toni Morrison’s books on tape as read by Toni Morrison.
This sounds so cliché, but stop trying to sound like Barbra Streisand. Stop trying to sound like Judy Garland. Stop trying to sound like Lena Horne. Stop trying to sound like Diahann Carroll. Stop trying to act like Meryl Streep or Cicely Tyson. Audra is enough.
VMS: That’ll do it.
AM: I’m going to get emotional, but there’s something about the stories — talk about her imagery! — and the emotion and the fact that she’s centering Black people without them necessarily being in the white gaze. I feel this way about most artists, especially writers and composers, but when you hear a writer read their own words? In the same way that I’m able to talk to Adrienne Kennedy and hear not only how she says something but how she’s feeling when she says something. So, when I listen to Toni Morrison read those stories, I don’t need a video screen. The world comes alive, and everything bursts open for me. There have been times I’ve been driving to work, just blown open and weeping! So, that’s the inspiration that’s been moving me lately.
VMS: If I pass you on the road, I’ll hand you a tissue! After six seasons, The Good Fight may be done, but we have another season of The Gilded Age to look forward to. Can you give us an inkling of what you might be up to next?
AM: There are two theater projects that I’m looking at that will come to fruition in about a year or so, but I also need a little bit of input time. I’ve been going so heavy and so hard for so long, filming both TV shows at the same time and then doing Ohio State Murders, and I still tour and do concerts. I’m realizing that if you don’t receive input, and sometimes that means just stillness and rest, that you have nothing to give out. So, I’ve been in a long period of output, so a lot of this next year for me is going to be about settling, reading more, being with my family, gardening — that’s what I want a lot of this next year to be.
VMS: You want to be a person. A human in the world.
AM: Right now, I’m almost at empty. So, 2023 is about me understanding when it’s time to reset.
VMS: You convey such emotion when you sing. Is there a song that chokes you up when you hear it or sing it?
AM: I sang this song years ago and just put it back in rotation in my concerts: “It’s Not Easy Being Green.”
VMS: That’s a killer!
AM: It’s a song about being other and finally at the end being like, no. I’m okay. I’m beautiful. So, lately I sing it like [pretends to weep], “I’m green!”
VMS: What’s your go-to karaoke song? Or a song that comes in the car that you have to sing?
AM: I’ve only done karaoke once, maybe twice in my life. Anything Earth, Wind & Fire. “Got to Get You Into My Life” by Earth, Wind & Fire. That’s one. Or Roberta Flack. “Where Is the Love,” with her and Donny Hathaway.
VMS: Is there a guilty pleasure in terms of art, music, or TV? What are you into lately?
AM: I was diagnosed as someone who is hyperactive when I was way, way little, and I still am. I think it’s helped my career. One of the things that focuses me is art and performing — that’s what helps me. I’ll find a show that I love, and I’ll watch every episode, go through all the seasons, and I’ll start over. For the past few years, it’s been Veep. And of course, we’re living it now! That show was so smart and so brilliant. I’m a superfan of everyone on that show.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.